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Thanks for joining us for Donnybrook.

Great to have you back.

You know this is our last program before Tuesday's primary election so lots to discuss.

Let's meet the panelists.

Sitting in for Wendy Weise who's taking the week off, we welcome Sarah Fenske from the 314 podcast, St.

Louis Magazine and her daily newsletter.

Thank you, Sarah.

On to Bill McClellan from the Post-Dispatch, one of our founders almost 40 years ago.

He's Joe Holleman also from stltoday.com and last week's host and the week before and the week before, Alvin Reid from the St.

Louis American.

Not to mention the Frank and Jill show on KTRS, the Dave Glover Show and numerous other broadcasts.

Hey, thank you so much.

No problem, anytime.

We're gonna start with you, Alvin, because you've already discussed the past three weeks things like Amendment 4 which in the state of Missouri would make it more difficult for people with an initiative petition to change the state constitution and Amendment 5 which would maybe eliminate the income tax but I don't think you guys discussed something in St.

Louis County.

It's Proposition U which would add a three and a half percent tax to internet purchases on out-of-state goods and it said that this is going to raise 70 to 110 million dollars money for police protection, municipalities, the zoo, not to mention St.

Louis County which is like 50 or 80 million dollars in debt.

What do you think on this one?

Well, one, at the end of the show last week I flip-flopped four and five so my apologies to all the viewers out there.

Now, getting to you, all right, I know people think that U stands for unsatisfactory and I know that there's issues within the county but I'm going to vote for it.

I'm just, this is me personally saying that that money is needed.

I think there's about to be a complete turnover of obviously in the County Executive's Office.

Maybe that will lead to a better functioning County Council.

So thus, look, I'm gonna, I guess for lack of a better term, hold my nose and vote for it because I think that it is needed and it is supporting, like I said, you know, public safety.

I'm a big zoo fan too even though the zoo may not need it.

Well, now that's an important point.

Why should, you know, Agnes and Afton see her taxes raised for the zoo which doesn't need the money?

All right, that's only kind of like a little ancillary.

Well, I'm really focusing on the municipalities and public safety.

Yeah, but we don't know how the money's gonna be spent and in recent years we've seen the County Council giving money to UMSL, right?

We've seen last week Sam Page saying we need a soccer center.

Meanwhile, there are like 60 nominations that the County Executive has put forward to the County Council.

They haven't acted on any of that.

He sent them a letter about the budget.

They've never scheduled anything on the agenda for that.

We don't know who's gonna be the County Executive, what his plans are or her plans are.

We don't know who's gonna be on the County Council.

I agree, but I think those are all good things because at least it's gonna change.

I am fully confident that if there is a way to mess up this money that the Council, as is, could find it.

But I'm gonna be a little bit more optimistic that after November, you know, grown-ups will re-enter the room a little bit and so I'm okay with it.

Well, isn't this money coming from internet taxes?

Yeah.

Which is why I like it.

I mean, I like the old-fashioned brick -and-mortar buildings and I like it when people made their purchases to a face-to -face with another person.

You gave them your money, they gave you the goods, and I hate to see this internet stuff just taking over and if it's gonna take over, at least it should have to pay a little.

So Bill, I have some news for you.

This internet stuff has taken over.

Like, there is so, I mean, retail is in huge trouble because so many people are buying things online.

Is this Amazon that I keep hearing about?

It is that little Amazon that you keep hearing about.

And so I guess that's the part of this that I'm sympathetic to.

I would like to even the playing field a little bit for these shops that are so struggling to survive and don't have to pay the same taxes.

But boy, Alvin, everything you're saying, it's like we're just trusting that everything's magically gonna be fixed once we get a different County Executive when we still have the same County Council going forward after we do this vote here.

So wouldn't it make more sense to see if we could figure out how to get this budget in order once we have somebody new in charge and then see if we have to do this tax?

I think, Charlie, you said is why should Agnes in Affton have to pay more taxes, period?

And I think this idea is we're talking about, well, we're gonna get a new council in there.

I don't sell any politicians short on their ability, new or old, to screw up the money that the public gives it.

It's not like this is the only council that's ever done it.

But here's what happens.

We mismanage things, so give us more money.

Now, where in the world is that a selling point to where you go into a bank and go, hey, remember you guys lent me $100,000 and I made a total mess of it.

Can I have another $100,000?

And that's what politicians do all the time.

But if Agnes in Affton is not buying things on the internet, then she's not paying the tax.

I think there's something to be said for that.

This is, this is kind of like untaxed goods and services.

It's not adding on, like, to what you're already paying.

This is kind of like uncharted water.

Well, I'll say, I say, I think, I agree with you to some extent with everybody on the panel, but I think, Elvin, you point out that the money is needed.

And I think it is for the, the jail, which is horrible, for the animal shelter, for picking up litter, for the streets, for other county functions.

But nobody's told us that this money is gonna go to a better jail or the animal shelter or whatever.

I mean, it might go to Rustic Roots Park, duh.

I don't know.

Public safety won't be bad.

I mean, it's some of it is designated to go a certain way.

You know, 2017, we'd Prop P for the police.

We said, oh, they're gonna be two police, two police officers in every vehicle.

That never happened.

I just don't understand where the faith is, is that politicians are gonna do what they say they're going to do.

I don't know what in history has shown that that's always the case.

And so why give them more money to tell you it's gonna do this, but then it ends up doing something else.

Well, you have, like, the county that, whether you like the politicians in the county or you don't like them, the county's running a deficit.

I mean, they're going broke, and it does seem to me like they need more money.

I mean, the alternative is bankruptcy.

I mean, now it helped Detroit, but I don't think that's where we want to go.

How about this?

Wait to next year.

Find out who the new team is, the county executive and the county council.

Find out exactly what their plans are for the 70 to 110 million dollars or whatever, and then put the issue on the April or the August ballot in 2027.

See, now, as much as I'm with you that I don't think this is the right time, I think that ship is sailing.

Like, this is on the budget now, and voters already turned this down, I think, three or four times, one of them maybe like five years ago.

I think if voters say no to this now, they're gonna go, okay, we have to go back to the drawing board.

I agree.

I think you better take your best shot now.

All right, from St.

Louis County to St.

Louis County.

Joe, you had a story this week where Alicia Clancy, a member of the St.

Louis County Council, was caught by a detective from the St.

Louis County Police Department picking up a yard sign that didn't belong to her.

It was a Brian Williams for County Executive sign, and it was in a median public property on Wiedon Boulevard in the city of Clayton.

According to the police report, you report that there were several signs in the car.

The police report said it appeared there were several signs along with the one that the person who the police officer readily identified as Councilwoman Clancy, recognized her when he looked at the driver's license, but was drawn to the case because was behind her, and not knowing it was her, and just saw the car stop in the middle of Wiedown at five o'clock in the evening during rush hour, hop out and grab this sign, and the police officer said, that doesn't seem like, you know, it's right, and it should be said here that a state law requires that if you do, you can get signs removed from being in the right-of-way.

What you do is you contact where it's at, you tell someone about the sign, and the highway department or one of their police officers can go and remove it.

This was not the case.

It just looked like somebody came out and grabbed the sign.

Police officer fouled a little bit, wrote the license number down, gets back to the office and runs it, and believes it to be Lisa Clancy, and said that also by looking at surveillance tape from around the area, looked like there may have been other signs in the car.

So now these were Brian Williams signs, and the police officer said he didn't search to see if it was in the right-of -way, but the interesting part about it, or what kind of piqued my interest was, was that she is a supporter of Jake Zimmerman, who is Brian Williams' main rival for the county executive position, and so it just struck me as being newsworthy that you're going around and removing signs from the opponent of the person you want to have the job, including Ms.

Clancy had a sign for Jake Zimmerman at her house.

So we know where her allegiance lies in this race, and right now... She hasn't commented.

She has declined to comment.

You know, you can't blame Jake Zimmerman for what Lisa Clancy's doing, but it does seem that his campaign, this is sort of typical.

I mean, the flyers that he's put out showing kind of a fuzzy picture of Brian Williams and a thing, should women fear this man, or women have a right to fear... I thought, that's just dirty politics, and I hear so many good things about Jake Zimmerman, but I just don't like the way he's running his campaign, and while you can't blame him for what Lisa Clancy's doing, I thought that was awful stuff, Lisa going around grabbing his signs.

You know, Lisa Clancy and the rest of the council should be trusted with this money that they would get for publicity.

My own argument here.

No, this is terrible.

You're supposed to be, you know, some type of a quote-unquote role model when you are in a public office, and to behave this way, I think there should be some penalty for it.

I don't know what you do.

I don't know if you can just have that vote where you censure somebody, which means absolutely nothing, but at least you say, like, you know, your behavior is out of line, but yeah, she should have some, you know, ramification for this action, because it's just completely out of line, and I don't know what she was thinking other than she wasn't thinking.

Alvin, I think that's absurd.

I think it's a good story.

I'm glad the Post-Dispatch reported on it, because it's funny.

It's like, oh, she's doing this in broad daylight.

Like, are you stupid?

Everybody knows you steal signs at night, you know.

Common knowledge in St.

Louis, but no, seriously, like, this is in the median, where signs are not supposed to be.

These are such litter all around town.

There are still ones in the city that are, like, from two cycles ago, like, looking trashier by the minute.

If somebody came by and took those down, I would pin a medal on them.

So I think if this had been if she took it out of somebody's yard who was a supporter and wanted this sign on their property, I would absolutely agree with you.

Censure her, fine her, do whatever, but for her to take down a sign where there shouldn't be a sign?

Okay, well, do you think that she's taking down Jake Zimmerman signs?

I don't know, she should.

Well, no, that's what I was going to say.

I was going to say, like, as reported, there were other signs around, I guess, for other candidates.

So if you specifically take this one, that's motive, that's opportunity.

Our colleague Joe has explained the law.

You're supposed to contact the police or the Public Works Department.

I find it hard to believe that even in Clayton, the police have enough time to deal with something like this.

I feel so beneath them.

I think that Clayton would pick up that.

Well, it's possible they would.

Highway and street departments, on a regular basis, do respond.

But you're saying there's multiple signs there.

These signs are proliferating in places where they shouldn't, and people take advantage of that by putting them in places where they don't have the right to put them in.

I think it should be like a citizen's arrest.

You see one on public property, anybody should be allowed to yank it up.

Let me say this, Sarah, if Lisa Clancy goes down Hanley and picks up litter on Hanley near 6440, and right now it looks like it's the worst I've seen in the United States or Canada.

Okay, you pay attention to these things.

I do pay attention.

If she has a habit of doing that, then I'll give her some credit for the sign.

But otherwise, I'm not convinced.

Okay, let's move on to you, Sarah.

No, Bill, because it's a tragic story out of Guatemala, which originated in Overland.

A couple who had both Both worked in town after moving here from Guatemala years ago, a father, a mother, three kids.

Both worked really labor jobs, I guess.

Well, ICE, Immigrations and Customs Enforcement, picked up the father about a year ago and then sent him to Guatemala.

The mother, alone with some of the children here, decided she wanted to reunify the family.

So last month or so, she moves down to Guatemala and it was reported this week by KWMU and others that the bodies of the parents were found bound and gagged.

They had been shot to death in a sugar cane field in southern Guatemala.

And this is another story where people who aren't causing any problems in the United States, other than that they may not be here legally, they're going to church, working hard, they're being sent to other countries which are known to be dangerous.

In this case, the couple is dead.

Do you think that ICE has blood on its hands?

Yeah, I do.

But I think that the bigger picture is, you know, the immigration solution that Congress has tried to work out for years and years involves some kind of pathway to legal residence for people who have come here and have lived in the communities and haven't caused any trouble and are productive citizens and pay in their Social Security taxes.

And what ICE is doing now under this current administration is, you know, grabbing these people, not the worst of the worst, they say, but people who are productive citizens.

And this couple, I mean, so it's a terrible policy the way we're doing it.

I mean, there needs to be this overall immigration package that Congress has talked about but has not been able to get done for political reasons.

Bill, I agree with you.

And this story just makes me so sick.

I haven't been able to stop thinking about this.

You know, this 14-month-old baby who was, like, born in St.

Louis.

And Aisha Sultan of The Post-Dispatch had a good column today.

The mom chose to self-deport because she was worried if she ended up getting swept up, what would happen to these kids?

Like, would they end up with strangers?

There wasn't somebody there to take care of them.

It's just, it's so heartbreaking.

And I think what just kills me is we keep changing the rules on people.

People, like, base their lives on, okay, I can come here under this program and here's how it's supposed to be administered.

And then all of a sudden we yank the rug out from under them.

You know, what's happening in Ohio, where I'm from, with these Haitians?

They've all come to this small town and completely revitalized it.

And the town loves to have them.

And now, because we've changed this temporary protected status that was given to Haitians, they're all like, no, you've got to go home to this wildly dangerous place.

And we don't care that we've just destroyed, you know, we gave them this welcome mat and now we're, like, ripping it out from under them.

And the president himself has said what a horrible country Haiti can be to live in.

Sure.

I mean, let's not wax nostalgic or anything.

Right now it's a very dangerous place.

And this week, U.S.

Senator Eric Schmidt, our junior senator from Missouri, sends out a press release that, hey, these people are on temporary protected status.

It's not permanent protected status.

Get them out of here.

And I just think it's so heartless because these people are working so hard.

They're obeying the rules.

And as you say, they followed what was, you know, asylum.

There was a certain procedure and that's what they were doing.

Well, I think what one thing I think that is clear to me is in the next presidential election especially, immigration is yet again going to be a big issue as it was two years ago.

And you can look at what you want about Donald Trump.

A lot of what got Donald Trump elected was to stop illegal immigration.

And there is a substantial chunk of this country, some would say a majority, that don't want people here who are here illegally do not have a right to be here.

The definition of the word illegal, that they are here illegally.

So it's an issue that the voters are going to decide, I think, by who they elect.

But the notion that, and you can't get any more tragic than what happened to this couple in Guatemala.

You just can't.

You couldn't make up anything as sad as that.

But at some point you have to decide, are we going to enforce it or are we not?

But don't forget, some of these people are claiming asylum, which was a legal maneuver under a previous administration, or they had what's called temporary protected status.

And they were brought here legally.

On a temporary thing that has lasted 17 years in some cases.

Well the problem is, Haiti is still bad.

Haiti was bad 20 years before that.

And if what you're saying is, is a lot of this was because people being refugees had to do with political persecution.

So what you have to do then is decide is, well any country whose standard of living is low, those people can come here too.

That's different than a political refugee.

Any country whose standard of living is low, nobody's saying that.

But we did say- That's exactly what he just said.

No, I mean- That's exactly what he just said.

He specifically looked at Haiti and said, this is a place where people cannot be safe and live.

Like that was chosen for a reason.

It wasn't just, oh the standard of living there isn't- You know Joe, also the president ran on saying that he was going to get rid of the worst of the worst.

The murderers, the rapists, the terrorists, the pedophiles.

These people don't fit any of those categories.

I mean, okay, going back to the election itself, now some of us, okay, and I'm just like, you know, Warren said like, okay, if we go down this path, this is the path that's going to take us.

Alright?

I'm horrified.

Very sad.

Like you.

But I am fully in the, what did you all expect, including a lot of people who voted for Donald Trump.

I don't think so.

Like these people didn't vote for him because they weren't citizens.

But I'm saying that a lot of people who are horrified and aghast and can't believe this is happening voted for Donald Trump.

So thus, you know, you can't escape kind of what Bill was saying that, you know, there are a lot of people out there that maybe learned a lesson, maybe they didn't.

But at the same time, I'm like, look, this is shocking.

This is horrifying.

This is terrible.

This is exactly what I expected to happen.

Well, I'll tell you what, I think Joe is actually right.

I think a majority of Americans might actually like this policy.

Well, I'm not saying I do, but I, well, and it's how we set policy is we elect people and then they create a policy.

If you remember before the election, there was almost a deal, an immigration deal to have a path for legal residents, for people who were here.

And it was sponsored by a Republican from Oklahoma.

And it was Donald Trump who said, no, we want chaos at the border for political purposes when I run.

Oh, OK, Sarah, yeah, let's in the next five minutes, we only have five minutes left in this program.

Let's see if we get through two topics, including Panera, which kind of had headquarters here or did it, Sarah, was there a CEO of Panera since 1993, whoever made St.

Louis home?

I don't know.

But it's decided to move whatever it had in St.

Louis to Weston, Massachusetts, an affluent community outside of Boston.

Your thoughts?

Yeah, I, you know, I hear all the hand wringing any time something leaves St.

Louis.

We all have to do our gnashing of teeth and what is wrong with us and why are we terrible?

I think that is completely misplaced in this instance.

You know, when they moved into their Fenton headquarters three years ago, there were six hundred and fifty workers that were there, not a giant number when you're talking about a big corporation.

Well, since then, they've had several large rounds of layoffs.

Now they're saying, OK, we're going to keep some of the St.

Louis workforce here.

We're just going to move some roles and give them this really bad severance package, you know, moving package to do it.

I think this has got to be like a hundred, two hundred people is my best back of the napkin math.

Why do we treat this like this is a reflection of our soul, that a dying company whose food is no good has decided to move a handful of white collar workers?

Because we're St.

Louis and we love to beat ourselves up.

I think you're right.

I think it's part of the history, you know, and not just because it was founded in Kirkwood, but it was founded in Kirkwood and it was St.

Louis Bread Company.

So it's it's like a part of our our entrepreneurial history.

Right.

But with that being said, you know, the CEO of the company now lives in Massachusetts, worked at his dad's fruit stand or whatever, you know, growing up.

It's like the man who bought the the Seattle Supersonics is from Oklahoma City.

And you know that, you know, he's going to move that team to Oklahoma City ultimately.

And he did.

So this one, I just it's, you know, it's bad, but at the same time, I didn't like him just because I like the name St.

Louis Bread Company.

And when they said, well, that doesn't work, it was another company that changed it.

OK, well, once once they said we're not going to call it St.

Louis Bread Company workers who would want to go there.

I mean, I thought I thought, please move to Boston.

Yeah.

Joe, I want to ask you about FEMA.

Not only did the St.

Louis City Hall, but also the junior senator Eric Schmidt sent out press releases, maybe patting themselves on the back or at least congratulating, you know, spiking the football that FEMA gave St.

Louis two point nine million dollars.

I mentioned rustic roots earlier.

Remember that in St.

Louis County?

They got three point two million.

Yeah, I have a feeling like maybe FEMA held a bake sale or something and said, hey, we raised this money.

It's embarrassing.

Well, first of all, why is the senator he's spending so much time getting rid of Haitians?

Why is he trying to get money for our tornado victims?

I get a feeling you don't like Eric.

I'm just saying I'm getting that feeling.

I think both of us.

First of all, it is two point nine million dollars.

So whoever wants to send me two point nine million dollars, your ace is in my book.

OK, that said, I think the idea that we had City Hall and Eric Schmidt sending out press releases, I honestly did want to look.

I thought it was going to say like two point nine billion.

Now, then press conference are two hundred nine million.

But it was like two point nine.

Oh, thank you very much.

Alvin, can you get a utility infielder for two point nine million dollars?

Maybe, maybe that's not even that's given either.

And look, the biggest insult here is this is money the city asked for last September.

It took them 11 months to write that check for two point nine million.

It's like they found some extra money.

This is supposed to be a big thing.

This reminds me of the scene when the Dukes in Trading Places give the butler five dollars for Christmas and it's between both of them.

Right.

He says, thanks a lot.

I could go to the movies by myself.

So I'm kind of like I saw that too.

Maybe they meant twenty nine million.

Well, I hope they use the two point nine million quickly and do something with it to say like, hey, we fixed two houses.

Hey, they gave it to politicians.

Of course it'll be used wisely.

It'll be used.

I think they should give it to politicians to run against our do nothing U.S.

senators who aren't getting any moolah for the tornado victims.

Actually, you could you could build several houses for two point nine million.

Well, you could build several houses.

But, you know, a builder could build several houses.

Government would come up five hundred thousand short and not need to go and ask voters for more money.

Sarah brings up a good point.

It's not for housing or repair.

It's for caseworkers, which is important.

OK, hey, let's go to the old mailbag and see what people had to say about last week's outstanding program.

The city needs to insist data centers absorb all costs caused by expanding the electricity infrastructure.

Better yet, the city should insist data centers provide their own power.

That from Tom Tarek of St.

Louis.

And we thank him.

Robert Anderson of Maryland Heights wrote regarding the issue of whether the city should merge with the county.

It's best not to allow the merger.

The city of Maryland Heights was incorporated because the county could not provide the necessary services for the area.

Maryland Heights is doing well without any merger.

Thank you.

That from Robert Anderson.

You can write us care of Nine PBS, 3655 Olive Street, 63108.

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Donniebrook at 9PBS.org on social media.

Use hashtag Donniebrook STL.

And don't don't forget that we have a wine line, a nine line here.

You can call the comment line at 314 -512-9094 and do what I did last week.

Listen to the show on your favorite podcast source.

Hey, we've got a program.

It's called Last Call.

And you can find it on the Donnybrook YouTube channel this week.

Among other things, we're going to be talking about whether Ameren should charge customers in advance for construction that hasn't even started yet.

It's called Construction Work in Progress among our topics.

Thanks to Sarah for sitting in for Wendy, who will be back next week.

We'll see you soon.

Donnybrook is made possible by the support of the Betsy and Thomas Patterson Foundation and the members of Nine PBS.